The Typical Insults Towards Us, And How (Not) To Deal With Them

For those of us who are MAPs and might profess about it in different places at times, we have received from negative critics to straight death threats and/or otherwise generalized threats of illegal actions described to be done to us just because of merely expressing by words (which is completely legal to do so).  It is very common that even a mere comment showing you have even the mildest sympathy for pedophiles will already tag you as one and/or unfairly incriminate you by the standards of people who are unfamiliar with these terms and general laws.  Personally, I recall being named “sicko” while following inaccurate “arguments” which are also then followed by grotesque pictures while claiming that “I will be caught and exposed”  (Exposed for what?  Speaking my mind?),  “We will beat you to death”, and other attacks completely avoiding actual engagement in arguments, other wise known as “Ad hominem” (See definition).

For those of us who have gone through such things simply for advocating for what you believe in, you have my deepest sympathy and support (Feel free to reach me out).  It feels like not so long ago, those in the homosexual community were also followed, and now here we are, while they currently have rights and also some have chosen to persecute us as well, which I find very hypocritical given how their condition were not so different from us not so long and in some places they still are marginalized as we are, though still not in the same intensity as us.  Moving on then, the problem with these insults is their nature of misleading and disrupting what would otherwise be an intellectual exchange by different parties with their respective perspective and an active attempt to directly censor our movement.  Then how could we deal with such thing and also be safe, since some people do actually decide to inappropriately take matters into their own hands and unreasoningly hunt us down?

Best steps is to make an attractive approach towards the audience you select to communicate with them in the most respectful manner you can, as long as they are also willing to listen on what you have to say.  Introduction is very important since it would be the first impression you would give to them of what they are going to expect from you.  Despite of this, some people will immediately assume you are the incarnation of the devil themselves, due to the to flawed database they have on stereotypes of our community.  However, some people are bound to actually listen and give reasonable exchanges of opinions, which would mean our message is still coming through.  On occasions, your post just end up in a flood of negative comments with no accuracy to the subject at hand whatsoever, the best recourse for those individuals is to avoid responding to them, since they have little to nothing for contributing on anything discussed (and probably didn’t even read any of it).

There are individuals that will go beyond imaginable and try to dox you for no real reason.  Unfortunately, there are many of such people when it comes to us and in order to prevent your personal privacy to be invaded it’s best to just practice safe browsing habits since the beginning.  You are doing no wrong in expressing your opinions and you shouldn’t be scared by such insensitive comments towards your persona, otherwise our movement will be known as a weak one and our morale in general will be on the fall.  Definitely not good for us in general, though it’s for a fact that it is hard for some to not be aware by all these threats, some which look like they’re actually going to get you, but they won’t, as long as you be safe on what you’re doing and practice reasonably protective habits, just in case.

Our activism is without a doubt a dangerous path for many in this current world.  It could ruin careers, family life, social life, and other things, just by merely practicing what it’s supposed to be the “right” to freedom of speech.  Consequently, many fear doing this for given reasons that already violates our privacy and therefore our voice is further reduced.  Most people hear about this subject from not so based communication medias that attempt to further increase the stigmatic approach to this topic and quote but only a small percent of our community who are mostly convicted, therefore next to never giving the window to others in the movement to give different views from those normally shared.  We must strive to make our voices heard loud and clear, but also push for legal action, when able, and to further children’s rights so that they can also be able to communicate their thoughts on the movement, as they are censored heavily when it comes to this.

 

18 Replies to “The Typical Insults Towards Us, And How (Not) To Deal With Them”

  1. A quick note: We’re not fighting for children, we’re fighting for ourselves. No 9-year-old is jonesing to have sex with older men. More importantly, there will likely never be a future where children could make a life changing decision independent of their legal guardian. “Child emancipation” is an old, clapped-out ideology which ought to have been left in the dustbin of history with the fall of PIE and NAMbLA. It’s a dead-end politically and wholly quixotic; we’d do well enough to take it off life support already.

    So we’re clear: I do think that recognizing child sexuality socially will lead to them having more leeway to direct their own lives somewhat, but I do not think, however, that there will ever be a future where the judiciary will concede that those same children could make such important decisions independent of their parents. It just ain’t gonna happen.

    Overall pretty decent article, though.

    1. While I see your point of it not being probable, I will have to completely disagree with you on this one. I am defending children’s rights in the long run as they do need more freedom to carry on their lives. Currently, yes, they are limited by their own guardians, hence why we must also address that and make guardians understand that they are guiders, not authority to impose over them. I am definitely not fighting for ourselves here, that is selfish and inconsiderate towards the young ones. What kind of true pedophile would ever do such a thing?

    2. I want to support Propedofront in his (her?) defense of Child Liberation. (S)he has vocalised an ethical argument, while I, agreeing with it, will also strengthen it with a pragmatic one: without the radical reshaping of general intergenerational relations in society and change in children’s social status and liberty, without the reconstruction of culture and prevailing ideas for acceptance of children’s agency and ability, Paedophile Liberation has a proverbial snowball’s chance in Hell to succeed. One will not win the argument by stating that one intends to have sexual relations with children; one can also win it by demonstrating – objectively and correctly – that children are entitled to social and sexual freedom, and may consent to enter sexual relationship and leave them – without being harmed. Unless the acceptance of children as active participants in social and cultural life is not achieved, their sexuality will continue to be denied.

      The situation here is very similar to the one of Gay Liberation and Feminism: without the radical change in social intergender relationships achieved by Feminists, without the cultural notions of gender expectations and intergender barriers being rewritten by them, Gay sexuality would have never been accepted. Unfortunately, the first attempt to transform intergenerational structures in society was not as successful… but we can, should and – as I have pointed above – have to try again. No revolutionary goal is lost completely; it may be suppressed, as Child-Lib and Paed-Lib were, but it will return to the public scene sooner or later.

      1. I completely agree to what you said, people claiming that we should only fight for our rights are being selfish of who we are conceiving as our potential partners in the future. Like the Gay Liberation movement, we must also make the necessary steps in order to make our voices heard, both adults and consenting children.

        One issue I have noticed in Pedophile movements though is how we are politically divided into different sectors and ideals, and many of them, rather than discussing and agreeing in pursuing common goals, they opt for bashing each other, which reminds me of the Spain’s Civil War’s Left Union. The Left lost there solely because they were so divided in their own ideals and never agreed to just keep going through their common goals and then further dispute after the war was over.

      2. I just don’t see that happening, honestly. I cannot foresee a future in which children are free from under the yoke of their parents. Realistically, our best shot is arguing that sexual contact is not intrinsically harmful, and that parents needn’t be afraid of permitting their children to partake in it. Children will never be allowed to vote, drive, own property or enlist in the military—all activities which require agency and social mobility, which children will not be given. After all, they’re inherently risky like sexual contact. If children are going to be allowed to experiment sexually, it shall be their parents who make that call, if they choose. Light contact is the best we can hope for, like kissing, cuddling and fondling. Full stop.

        I see you’re a fan of O’Carroll; I am too, but that era is gone, my friend. It died the moment ILGA expelled NAMbLA and Martijn for political gain. Let it go already. We ought to pursue the assimilationist approach the LGBT movement did in the 80s and 90s. It’s pragmatic. It worked well for them, and it may very well work for us too. I’m not going to spend my youth fighting a hopeless battle: you should reconsider your position, I reckon. When O’Carroll and the Old Guard goes, so will any vestige of that belief among MAP intelligentsia, I think.

        1. “After all, they’re inherently risky like sexual contact.”

          – Sexual contact isn’t inherently risky. With that logic, we would wrap children in bubble wrap and let them sit and not do anything until they reach whatever age happens to be the minimum in whenever we are located. Hey, I am realistic too, my friend. I doubt I will live to ever once feel like I’m happy, but, while I will fight for debunking that sexual interaction with children isn’t bad at all, I will also not stop arguing in favor of children having more liberties over their choices. Whether it be possible or not, it’s still what I see as the right thing to do. I am not disagreeing with you that many things are virtually impossible at this current time-line, but that doesn’t mean I will just give up for the sake of looking for my own convenience. Pedos that choose to only fight for themselves are also why antis argue we don’t care about children (I mean, they don’t care either though. ) See, the thing here isn’t about politics solely, it’s about a better and more worthy life for those in adult-child relationships. What is the point if only the adult gets the benefits? I just couldn’t be able to carry with that over me, despite if said movements are dead or alive, children are still human beings, not tools for our sexual gratification.

    3. I do agree that total child emancipation is silly. Up until a certain age (depending on the culture) a child will always have guardians and will not be totally free to make all of their own decisions.

      I will disagree though when you say 9 year old girls aren’t jonesing for sex (or at least sexual contact). They are and if you get close with a 9 year old and they feel they can trust you then the advances come out from them. Some overt, some aggressive, some more passive, some very light.

      I do think we can work toward an overall social shift in which adults stop viewing children as other beings that are lesser and must obey adults that are separate from adults and instead view them as Tolkien called them, juvenile humans. Deserving of respect and not expected to just obey any adult’s command.

    1. Michael, you said: “that era is gone, my friend” (for some reason, I can’t reply to the post where these words of yours actually appeared, so I replied to another one).

      My answer is simple: but the era which we currently encounter will end one day, too – and it is the people’s thought and deed that will determine what the next era would be like. 1950s were authoritarian and reactionary; yet progrerssive and libertarian 1960s and 1970s were the next historical step, with more positive changes than ever. Our society and our culture are still largely based on the fundamental innovations that were enacted in these times. 1980s revival of authoritarianism and reaction, and 1990s end-of-history centrist stagnation hadn’t given us much to work on in the future, they just deprived us of what we achieved.

      And, while the early 21st century has not presented us with the liberatory movements as strong and widespread as the ones of mid-20th century, it has just begun. Sooner or later, people will become simply tired of ever repeating the same mistakes; some are already tired, as modern social instability and rejection of mainstream culture shows. Our future depends on us; it is not pre-determined.

      I, being 30 years of age, do hope to see some positive changes during my own life.

      1. Yes, the current era we’re in will fade, however, the fact that children are under the thumb of their parents will not. There has never been a period wherein children were emancipated from adult control, even briefly, that I’m aware of. Sorry, I haven’t got the time to waste my youth on dreaming.

        Now let me ask, since we’re on the topic: What have you done in, say, the last decade to further the cause? You and that crowd which gather around O’Carroll love to chat about how life ought to be different, but what are you all actually doing to make that dream become reality? Debating with apathetic blowhards on forums and complaining about how children are enslaved does nothing to bring about social change.

        With all due respect, “hoping” to see that change, instead of leading it, is a surefire way of never witnessing it. Let’s actually get the ball rolling before we start getting our hopes up, shall we?

  2. > “It feels like not so long ago, those in the homosexual community were also followed, and now here we are, while they currently have rights and also some have chosen to persecute us as well, which I find very hypocritical given how their condition were not so different from us not so long and in some places they still are marginalized as we are, though still not in the same intensity as us.”

    I saw a guy on Reddit, member of the LGBT community, who said that he had sympathy towards us, but said that our attraction is unethical. Very well. The pioneers of the gay liberation movement had links with pedophile movements as well. They didn’t think it was unethical. Why would LGBT think it’s unethical now?

    That makes me upset twice. I can take crap from any anti and be fine, but that guy both jumped to assumptions at same time as he gave a very clear view of his understanding over LGBT history. They didn’t think it was unethical back then because the moral panic wasn’t up. So, it was easier for pedophiles to be listened by politics and minority movements. If that guy were to listen to us and have a decent convo, he would see that it’s not unethical at all. Wasn’t Jim Kepner a boylover? What about Oscar Wilde, by the way? All gays. And hebephiles.

    But I have been thinking that maybe we don’t need LGBT association to make this a big movement. Pedophiles seem to sum around 1% of the world population, with some people saying 5%. But a MAP can also be hebephile, nepiophile, ephebophile and even teleiophile (because age of consent in some places is 21, some relationships with adults are also outlawed). Throw in the mix minors themselves who are in a relationship with each other and have to hide it from the law. If we could get all those people together to fight for acceptance and promote a dialogue between all parties to come up with an unifying agenda, maybe we could get a political space. However, the stigma must pass first. And that’s one thing all MAPs want, no matter at what side they are in the contact issue.

    As for not fighting for children, but ourselves only, the laws must change for sake of children too, so we are also fighting for them. Kids as young as eleven are being put on sex offender registry for, say, playing doctor, peeing in the house garden, stuff like that. Kiddy exploration, landing kids on registry. And what about those adolescent lovers who have exciting experiences of sheer ilegality? Judith Levine had an affair with an older dude and she was 14 (age of consent 16). And now, she’s a very productive personality in feminism. Not only there was no harm, she is also proud of what she did.

    As for intergenerational contact with small children, it can be beneficial to them if the limits are respected. Rind Report shows that penetration is a common feature of harmful relationships. I do think that it’s better, if the kid if prepubescent, not to cross the line of fondling. Other evidence shows that promoting that kind of pleasure helps kids to grow more peaceful, softer. Sexual repression is linked to violent behavior in adulthood. So, it’s also narrow-minded to say that we are all-out self-servicing kid molesters.

    1. >But I have been thinking that maybe we don’t need LGBT association to make this a big movement.

      I believe we should just organize ourselves again and start our own pro-contact movement, but before that there are many inner issues that most be solved across the different Pro-Contact places I know. We need common goals and general consensus with issues, rather than keep disagreeing with each other.

      >If we could get all those people together to fight for acceptance and promote a dialogue between all parties to come up with an unifying agenda, maybe we could get a political space. However, the stigma must pass first. And that’s one thing all MAPs want, no matter at what side they are in the contact issue.

      Yes, exactly! Without consensus between even ourselves, we will not get anywhere at all.

      >As for not fighting for children, but ourselves only, the laws must change for sake of children too, so we are also fighting for them.

      Yes, but even among those who claim to be pro-contact, some say that this is for themselves and refuse to see how changing laws in consent would also help children into being more listened, not to mention promote their independence. People legit believe that are there is to consent is just the sexual aspect of it, but no, this is more than just that alone, and people who actually want a relationship with children and not merely use them would recognize what they are really fighting for here.

      Not only that, but after tackling age of consent, that is only but the beginning of child liberation, there are many instances in today’s society where children are forced by an authority to abide by “rules” because they are younger, solely because of age alone.

      >Kids as young as eleven are being put on sex offender registry for, say, playing doctor, peeing in the house garden, stuff like that.

      Those things really, really infuriates me. Registering children to protect children. The irony of this.

      >Rind Report shows that penetration is a common feature of harmful relationships. I do think that it’s better, if the kid if prepubescent, not to cross the line of fondling. Other evidence shows that promoting that kind of pleasure helps kids to grow more peaceful, softer.

      I think it’s mostly about just having a balance and, foremost, respect the child’s body as only they are the proper owners of their own bodies, as everyone else is their own body. You can’t force anything, ever. Nobody likes anything that is forced, and that is the factor that could lead to these side-effects there, not to mention the current stigma towards the issue intensifying it a lot more, unfortunately. Healthy relationships is something we should all have in mind for, but also realistically knowing that not all cases are the same and that nothing is perfect, but it will be better than before to respect everyone’s rights, rather than choosing to subjugate children into our little world of “do what we tell you because we said so” and disregarding their input.

      1. I really should get that other blog going. One of my friends started a pro-contact Tumblr to test Pedophile Funposting. We know that Tumblr is dominated by anti-contact and anti-pedophiles. She said that anti-contacts treat pro-contacts with great arrogance and despise. I wanna make a Tumblr just to test that, hihihi.

        I agree with everything that you said, yes. You are pretty lucid.

  3. I think I would want to check that out myself too, I am currently also investigating Anti-Contacts communities on platforms such as Discord. I know there are “Pro-Contact and Antis” kind of hate Discord servers around, which are, of course, moderated by Anti-Contacts themselves.

    I have interacted with Anti-Contacts myself, as like us Pro-Contacts, I am aware of how many of them differ from each other, so it is also part of satisfying my own curiosity in how they each try to represent themselves as one entity from the surface (Tumblr for example), but in reality how they all have their vast differences in opinions anyways and how they opt for making subgroups in order to try to hunt those who disagrees with them, but still managing to keep a facade of how they are seen in general, so I consider that particular trait, an interesting one in the pedophile community.

    The difference with them and us is that they actually did reach some kind of consensus in some things.

  4. We also got consensus going. They say that adult-child intimacy is wrong, we say it’s not, just one. We both agree that the stigma must pass. They get more consensus between themselves because the sexual part is hardest one to sort. If they suppress that debate, it’s unlikely they will disagree between each other in sensitive matters. But some disagreement goes on among them on how to get sexual relief. I heard that some even discourage fantasizing. That’s pretty hardcore.

    That girl in your icon, it’s Chobits, I’m almost sure.

    1. You’re right. I have had discussions towards that in the board /younglove/ in 8ch where they are currently engaging in this topic and many also agree on that, but also some us agree on not letting VirPed become the dominant narrative, which is what could happen if we all just dropped what we are doing and blindly supported VirPed, not to mention that even though we all support destigmatization of pedos, in my views, they support stigmatization of children, as in making them look even more weaker than society already chooses to see them as, and that’s where I draw the line when it comes to approaching pedophilia “the virtuous” way. Are we really considering the children here?

      Also, yes. You are correct that my avatar is Chii from Chobits. I love her.

      1. I sometimes wonder if virtuous pedophiles are more scared of children or themselves. It almost looks like they are scared of going out of control. Almost, as I know that some are more chill.

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